S1E2 "Maternal Morbidity & Finding Your Voice" w/ Jasmine Winters Pt 1

A mom says “I don’t feel well,” and the room keeps moving. Hours later, she’s in emergency surgery after losing more than two and a half liters of blood. That gap—between what Black women say and what systems hear—is where severe maternal morbidity takes root, and it’s where our conversation with Jasmine Winters refuses to look away.

We open with clarity on morbidity versus mortality and why the distinction matters for Black maternal health. Jasmine walks us through her IVF pregnancy, a placenta previa diagnosis that was later minimized, and the moment her instincts were dismissed as “normal.” She shares the physical spiral, the emotional whiplash of being sedated against her wishes, and the shock of being told to “go be a great mom” hours after a near-death event. We talk openly about postpartum depression, the silence that follows survival, and how founding Peaceful Minds Haven helped her translate trauma into advocacy focused on maternal wellness and mental health.

This story is also about partners and protection beyond the front door. We spotlight fathers in the delivery room and at home, exploring how to advocate when something feels wrong, how to recognize postpartum changes, and how small acts—like presence, snacks, and steady words—can make a life-saving difference. Jasmine introduces the Healing Playbook, a practical way to bring spouses into maternal health conversations with real skills and shared language. Along the way we lean into storytelling as a form of community care, encourage documentation and debriefs, and push for respectful, responsive care that listens the first time.

If this conversation resonates, help us reach more families. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a review with one insight you’re taking into your next appointment. Your voice helps build a safer, more human-centered path for every birth.

Chapters

• 0:14 Welcome And Series Framing
• 1:12 Introducing Jasmine Winters
• 3:23 Morbidity Vs Mortality Explained
• 4:45 Placenta Previa And Missed Signals
• 6:40 The Hemorrhage And Emergency Surgery
• 9:05 Being Ignored While Declining
• 12:15 Aftermath, Fear, And Loss Of Voice
• 16:32 Reclaiming Advocacy Through Nonprofit Work
• 19:25 Using Storytelling And Social Media
• 22:02 Postpartum Depression And Survival Mode
• 24:28 Partners’ Roles And Mental Health
• 27:43 The Healing Playbook For Fathers
• 31:05 Protection Beyond The Hospital Door

Transcript

Jaye Wilson: 0:14

Thank you so much for tuning in to Melinated Mommy Talks. I am your host, Jaye Wilson. I am the founding president and CEO of Melinated Moms. We're a community-centered women empowerment organization that's doing the work to create maternal health equity through community engagement events, education, and all these great opportunities to bring moms and community together. I am so excited to have you here with us for our episode where we are talking to moms who are in the margins. And what does that actually mean? I have been a nurse for now 20 years. I can't even believe it. Jesus, how did I get here 20 years ago? Um, but I've always worked in the space of community where I learned how marginalization really impacts the way that people take care of themselves and make their decisions around their health care. I am so excited to really dive into these next few episodes with you. We have some amazing guests that are really going to share their stories, and I cannot wait for you to meet them. Our first guest is Jasmine Winters. She is an all-around, all-encompassing mom who is doing it all from top to bottom. She is a reproductive health advocate. She has been on this journey too and through her motherhood as a military mom, going all the way into an IVF journey. And she's going to talk to us more about what does it look like to be a mom on the margin in the space of morbidity. We're often hearing the statistics around black mortality rates and them being three to four times higher than our white counterparts. So we understand that maternal mortality is a huge topic and a huge epidemic that is happening to black women here in the United States when it comes to giving birth. But we're not often hearing the stories of the moms who may be in that space of having traumatic birthing experiences. So I'm really excited to hear from Jasmine, and I cannot wait for you to hear her story. The conversation is so rich that we actually had to break it into two parts. This is part one of our conversation with Jasmine Winters. Jasmine! I am so happy that you are here today, my dear. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. So please let us know who you are. Who is Jasmine Winters?

Jasmine N. Winters: 2:56

Yes. Thank you, Jaye. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. I am a mommy of four. I have three girls, one boy. I am an IVF Journey mom. Um, in addition to that, I am an entrepreneur. I have created a nonprofit which focuses on maternal wellness coupled with the mental part of the wellness.

Jaye Wilson: 3:22

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 3:23

From an experience of my own with my IVF baby in 2023, where I experienced morbidity during labor and delivery.

Jaye Wilson: 3:32

So we often hear mortality and morbidity used interchangeably, but we both know they are not the same. So can you just give us a little bit of insight on what does it actually mean to talk about morbidity, not mortality?

Jasmine N. Winters: 3:49

Yeah, they're absolutely not the same. Morbidity is when you experience near death during labor and delivery. Mortality is when you actually lose a loved one during the birthing process.

Jaye Wilson: 4:03

That's, that's really significant. I know there is also infant mortality, right? And that is the loss of our babies. I am a stillbirth mom and I understand what that experience is like. And while it is definitely nothing I wish on anyone, I understand how heavy morbidity also can be. Can you talk to us a little bit about what was your experience with your birthing journey for your son and how did it lead to a morbidity?

Jasmine N. Winters: 4:35

Ooh, so my, my journey with my son, um, as I stated, he was an IVF.

Jaye Wilson: 4:42

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 4:42

Um, we were very excited for this journey.

Jaye Wilson: 4:45

Nice.

Jasmine N. Winters: 4:45

However, at 20 weeks, I was diagnosed with what's called placenta previa. And for those with us who may not be familiar with that, with what that term is, uh, placenta previa is when your placenta is covering your vaginal canal, which is where you would deliver vaginally. In that case, if the placenta does not shift on its own as your uterus grows, you would then be a candidate for a C-section. In my case, I was cleared of having the placenta previa and was told that I could deliver vaginally and I should not have. So during my labor and delivery, I experienced morbidity, which again is when you are near death. I lost over two and a half liters of blood and needed an emergency surgery. This could have been prevented had my doctors and my nurses who were in the room with me for labor and delivery listened to the need and what I was expressing. I was saying for over an hour, I don't feel well. I just want to go to sleep. I don't want to do skin to skin contact. They tried to then force skin to skin on my partner. And he said, No, I don't want to do skin to skin. I want you to check on Jas.

Jaye Wilson: 5:59

Right, yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 6:00

You know, if something's not right, why is she shaking this way?

Jaye Wilson: 6:03

Right.

Jasmine N. Winters: 6:03

And ultimately, you know, for moms who experienced uh giving birth, shaking after giving birth is, yes, very normal. But this was a different type of shaking.

Jaye Wilson: 6:13

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 6:14

And so finally, when they did uh come in and check to see where my uterus and everything was sitting, that, that's when they found that I had been internally bleeding for over an hour.

Jaye Wilson: 6:25

Wow.

Jasmine N. Winters: 6:25

Which is where I landed with morbidity.

Jaye Wilson: 6:31

And to experience that in the moment, what were some of those thoughts that ran through your head?

Jasmine N. Winters: 6:38

Like, ooh, girl, I'm still healing. Um I was afraid, I was scared. My mother-in-law was in the room with me. Um, after they had separated the family, my partner went off to another room with our newborn, who was only six hours old at this point, maybe even four or five hours old at this point. Um, moved them to a different room. My sister was down in the lobby. They would not allow her to come back up. My mother-in-law actually, God bless her, because she bullied her way in there and she said, No, I am not leaving her side. I need to see what's going on. She was trying to take pictures and record, and they were more concerned with her pulling that phone out than they were focusing on the fact that we're, we're losing this patient. Exactly. And I just remember looking at my mother-in-law after waking up from an unconscious moment and saying, please don't let them put me to sleep. I am scared. And I just, I cried and they kept giving me medications to try to put me to sleep, even though I requested not to go to sleep. Whatever you got to do with this surgery and whatever epidural is still lingering for pain management, let that be it. But don't give me anything extra. Yeah. Um, that was disregarded. They continued to give me medications through the IV to calm my nerves, to settle me so that they could get through the blood transfusion and the emergency surgery that was needed.

Jaye Wilson: 8:11

Wow. Now, you're a mom of four. So when you reflect back on your pregnancies with your previous three children and your son, had you ever had any of these experiences with the other pregnancies?

Jasmine N. Winters: 8:25

No. Nope. They were wonderful pregnancies. They were all to term 39 and 40 weeks.

Jaye Wilson: 8:33

Okay.

Jasmine N. Winters: 8:34

Uh, very easy deliveries. Uh, didn't have any issues with pushing them out vaginally. Um, however, with my son, my fourth delivery, I had some complications with pushing, which I contribute that to the placenta previa diagnosis. Um, and I had some complications with uh the pushing parts of uh delivery. And it was so frustrating for myself, but my doctor, the delivery doctor, also expressed uh their frustration by taking their gloves off and saying, until you're ready to push properly, I'm leaving the room.

Jaye Wilson: 9:13

That's crazy.

Jasmine N. Winters: 9:14

Left the room, told me they were gonna go to another patient, and when I was ready to push, someone will come get them.

Jaye Wilson: 9:24

So, so many things are going through my head when you say that. It's, first of all, it's sickening because for them to say this to you as if you're just a it's insignificant metric, right? You are just another number on their count of how many people they're gonna deliver today, it's disgusting. You know, and I often think about when I hear these stories um and even reflect on things in my own health, right? I think about these clinicians and the way that they treat their own loved ones. If you were on the opposite side of this table and they were sp speaking to you in this manner, would you have the same emotion, the same thought process, the same behaviors? And I know like I've, I've had this happen to me several times. I'm a nurse by by trade. And if I go into the hospital for my own illness or my children, and I'm asking for help and support, and they're giving me these, you know, very roundabout answers or trying to talk over my head, it's almost like I have to pull out a playing car, like, you know, I'm a nurse.

Jasmine N. Winters: 10:37

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson: 10:37

And then like, oh, oh, so we could actually talk to you like this. Or I'll get the challenge of, well, what kind of nurse are you? As if that's gonna be a way to insignificant or you know, make my my, my nursing degree insignificant in that moment. So as a patient and as a patient advocate, because that's what you have been also in reproductive health, you have this knowledge, you have this back end space, and also you're a mom already. You've, you've pushed out three babies successfully, have beautiful pregnancies previous. So to go into it with knowledge and lived experience, there's nothing that gave you any pause to say I wouldn't have the same experience. So when you went through this experience, how did that shape the way that maybe you counseled other people who are coming to you for support and service?

Jasmine N. Winters: 11:32

It took me a while to get back to being of service. My experience silenced me uh maybe a good year and a half after giving birth. It silenced me because I could not advocate properly for myself.

Jaye Wilson: 11:50

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 11:50

And it made me, it made me think, you know, this is what you do for a living.

Jaye Wilson: 11:55

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 11:55

You advocate for people, you help uh women understand reproductive justice, rights, equity, bodily autonomy. This is who you are.

Jaye Wilson: 12:07

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 12:08

Why can't you speak up for yourself?

Jaye Wilson: 12:10

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 12:10

Experiencing morbidity and that near-death experience, for me, it has, it has left a hole in my spirit somewhere. And because of that, I could not speak up for myself. And it wasn't until I created my nonprofit, Peaceful Minds Haven, that I was able to start speaking up for myself and for others in the community again. It was with creating that is where I re-found my voice.

Jaye Wilson: 12:37

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 12:38

You know, because there's times I'll sit, I'll just be standing there washing dishes and I'm like, I just want to go to the hospital and say, you hurt me.

Jaye Wilson: 12:45

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 12:45

I just want you to see my face and know you hurt me. And the biggest takeaway from my experience is if this can happen to someone who has the credentials, who is an advocate in this space, who has the knowledge and the terminology and understands what happens from beginning to end when dealing with a pregnancy all the way up to labor and delivery, and through the fourth trimester, this can happen to anyone.

Jaye Wilson: 13:13

Absolutely.

Jasmine N. Winters: 13:14

And what happens to those who are not as resourceful? How do they use their voice and their platform to say, you hurt me?

Jaye Wilson: 13:22

That's right. That's right. That's right. And that's really important that you say that. You know, the first thing I thought of when you said platform is actually paying attention to social media videos and pictures of moms or women or birthing people who were having very significant dismissal happening during their birthing and labor process. And they would, you know, put it on social media. This hospital is treating me like garbage. Or I can't wait to get out of here and just see my baby because this is so inhumane. And it's, it, it, it shocks my soul to think we can put these things out here on social media, we can talk to whoever we, we speak to, but until an unfortunate mortality or morbidity actually happens, people don't understand the significance of those statements. So I want to ask you, how can we actually use those types of platforms, social media and otherwise, to gain more understanding of the severity of this so that we can help people put their advocacy into action when they see morbidity starting to creep up on them?

Jasmine N. Winters: 14:40

Yeah, I, that's a great question, Jaye. Raising the awareness and using your platform to uplift organizations like Melinated Moms, like Peaceful Minds Haven, sharing your story. There's so much power and healing in story sharing.

Jaye Wilson: 14:58

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 14:58

That is a form of advocacy. You're advocating for yourself when you tell your story and you're helping the next person find the strength and the courage to use their voice as well. Because listen, I'm, I am not the only birthing mom, IVF journey mom, who has experienced morbidity.

Jaye Wilson: 15:16

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 15:17

There are so many other birthing moms who may share the same experience that I have, but they don't know how to tell it. And so by me exercising my right to advocate for myself by telling my story will help other moms say, wow, I'm not the only one that went through that.

Jaye Wilson: 15:34

Right. It takes away that isolation.

Jasmine N. Winters: 15:36

It does.

Jaye Wilson: 15:37

When you're going through mor bid, morbidity, the first thing you want to do is just say, I'm, I'm just glad I survived. But we can't just live in that survival space and think that that is enough.

Jasmine N. Winters: 15:50

But here's the thing, Jaye. You are absolutely right. It's not enough. The issue, at least in my experience, was because I wasn't speaking up, it caused such a deep postpartum depression that I didn't even recognize. I experienced morbidity, right? And then I'm told hours later, after an emergency surgery and after blood transfusion, now you have to go be a great mom.

Jaye Wilson: 16:23

Right.

Jasmine N. Winters: 16:23

You have to care for this human that needs you, needs you for food, for love, for understanding. And you're trying to heal and wrap your brain around the fact that I just almost was not here. You know, that's why I say I'm still healing. I don't think that I have wrapped my brain around the idea that I almost was not here.

Jaye Wilson: 16:49

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 16:49

You know?

Jaye Wilson: 16:50

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 16:50

It's heavy.

Jaye Wilson: 16:51

It is.

Jasmine N. Winters: 16:52

It is absolutely heavier if I experienced mortality, but living with that hole in your spirit is not talked about often. And it is not something that therapy is going to clear up, let's call it nine months. It takes a takes you nine months to create this life. Experiencing morbidity is not going to clear up in nine months. I, I have to be intentional with doing the work and showing up for myself to heal and still be a mom.

Jaye Wilson: 17:27

Yeah. Yeah. I think what you said, it it makes so much sense. But I want to actually go back to Peaceful Minds Haven. One of the things I admire so much about the work that you do is you are looking at mental health from a wellness space, not just illness, right? So we can recognize the significance of I may not feel well, but it does not mean that I am ill.

Jasmine N. Winters: 17:50

Correct.

Jaye Wilson: 17:50

Right?

Jasmine N. Winters: 17:51

That's correct.

Jaye Wilson: 17:51

Um, and then you also create space for fathers and partners to be a part of that, which I think also bridges that gap where the onus of facing all of these things is not again just sitting on you. It's actually a shared space with your partner so that they understand the significance of how it impacts the parenthood that both of you bring. Because there are some days where I ain't got it. I ain't got it. I ain't gonna lie to you. These kids, I'll be like, look, it ain't today. Mommy ain't got it. Right. But if you have a partner who understands and can create that compassionate space of saying, I shared this experience with you, I watched as I thought I might not have you here to parent, that does something to them as well. So this physical experience that you had and the way that it connects you to your son, that is definitely, we're not overshadowing that. But to be on the outside watching the woman that you love and the baby that you made together also sit in these margins and not know how can I advocate? How can I actually be a part of this? That does create mental instability. How can I jump into action? What can I actually do? So, you know, I attended your event a couple months ago where we, we, we sat and we talked with fathers and we heard their aspect of sharing this space while watching these births and watching the way that postpartum depression impacts the way that you parent, you love, you take care of yourself, you pour into your family and even your relationships. Why is it so important to you for us to have those collective conversations with our partners so that they can be a part of the solution?

Jasmine N. Winters: 19:47

Absolutely. So with my nonprofit uh Peaceful Minds Haven, we also have like a subdivision of Please, Peaceful Minds Haven. Um, and that's called the Healing Playbook.

Jaye Wilson: 20:00

Okay.

Jasmine N. Winters: 20:01

It is comprised of uh PMHs, Peaceful Minds Haven, our board members, there's five of us, and the healing playbook is comprised of our spouses.

Jaye Wilson: 20:14

Okay.

Jasmine N. Winters: 20:14

And they've shown up in this uh work to support us um so that we can reach communities and families. So often we are being educated and given resources for birthing moms and the statistics on morbidity and mortality rates, which are rising.

Jaye Wilson: 20:36

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 20:36

However, we are not uh equally providing those numbers, education, and resources to our fathers, to our partners who are also a part of this journey with us. And so for me, for example, during my uh morbidity experience, my partner and I, after going home, experiencing what we experienced, I am a different person now. I'm trying to figure out who I am. I'm trying to heal from this moment, I'm trying to parent, I'm still trying to pour into the children who were already previously here, run a home, still go back to work 12 weeks postpartum and just find normalcy again.

Jaye Wilson: 21:20

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 21:22

Sometimes, a lot of times, often,

Jaye Wilson: 21:25

Yes.

Jasmine N. Winters: 21:27

that can break up a home because while I am also trying to figure things out, heal, understand, and find myself again, your partner is too.

Jaye Wilson: 21:38

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 21:38

And your partner sometimes, often, does not know how to show up for you. They don't know how to recognize the signs that you are experiencing postpartum. And then if they do recognize those signs, they may not know how to show up. It could be a simple foot rub. It could be bringing me my favorite snack home.

Jaye Wilson: 22:00

We like snacks.

Jasmine N. Winters: 22:01

We do. I like Reese's, you know?

Jaye Wilson: 22:04

Yes.

Jasmine N. Winters: 22:06

But they may not know how to show up in those spaces because they're also dealing with their own form of depression.

Jaye Wilson: 22:12

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 22:12

Maybe they thought fatherhood was gonna look different for them.

Jaye Wilson: 22:15

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 22:16

But when you experience trauma, that happy family look changes.

Jaye Wilson: 22:24

It does.

Jasmine N. Winters: 22:24

Because now you're both, I experienced the morbidity, he experienced watching it.

Jaye Wilson: 22:30

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 22:31

And that's not considered in this space.

Jaye Wilson: 22:35

I agree. This might sound a little shady. Um just gonna preface with that. Um I remember in my um pregnancy with my last daughter, my ex-husband and I were not on good terms. And I remember like expressing to my doctor, you know, the fear of I may leave my babies without a mom. And my doctor telling me, let me talk to your husband. Let me tell him like the significance of what's going on with you, because it is a real fear, but is uh it's an actual thing that I'm really trying to prevent. I was incredibly sick during my pregnancies. And I remember the doctor talking to him. I, and I stepped out of the room because I'm like, I want this man to talk to this other man, right? But I remember him having this conversation with him and my ex-husband being so offended. And now, you know, hindsight is better than foresight. I think, not giving him any excuses, he's still who he is, but I think that there were so many things that that man poured into him that he was not ready for. He was not able to really absorb that this man is not coming to him as an adversary. He's coming to him as an advocate.

Jasmine N. Winters: 23:51

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson: 23:52

For me.

Jasmine N. Winters: 23:52

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson: 23:53

And asking him, look, whatever you do outside, you do that outside. But your wife needs you in this moment. And the more that you are disconnecting, the more you're actually adding to the things that we're trying to prevent. We don't want her to have a mortality. She definitely gonna have a morbidity because she walked in with one, right? But having that kind of conversation man to man, I think that also puts things into perspectives, and into a good perspective. And I think that there are more men that are coming forward who are starting to have these very trusted sacred conversations with other men and creating spaces for them. Fortunately, they're coming and they're, they're learning, right? So they're learning from us, they're learning from the women who have experienced these things. Unfortunately, a lot of these men who are doing it, not all, but a lot of them are coming from the space of mortality.

Jasmine N. Winters: 24:50

Yes.

Jaye Wilson: 24:51

So I see them pushing through the grieving process of I lost this woman, and now I have to parent through my grief and my what-ifs and how I should have. And if I would have known that I can advocate for this, it would have looked like this. Whereas now they're taking their experiences and they're talking to these young men who are going into fatherhood sometimes for the first time. And I think that is so beautiful.

Jasmine N. Winters: 25:22

Yes.

Jaye Wilson: 25:22

We've been talking a little bit about like how this also is a healing journey. I think, from what I observe with these men, is and what I think also what happened at your event is these men being able to open up and show that vulnerability as a strength is a way to heal through the things that they also traumatically experience watching you go through these traumatic birthing things, right? And I really want us, especially in our black and brown communities, I want us to really know like we need that. There's so many men that want you to depend on them as that provider and the protector and all that stuff, and that's great. Drop your wallet over there, do all of the things. But the protection that I need is more than just telling somebody not to pick on your wife, right? It's showing up in this space where you even feel vulnerable and you say, I'm not gonna let you treat her like this. I'm going to be the person that's gonna protect her body and her soul and her mind because I know that if I show up in that space like that for her, this is gonna help us all in the long run. Right?

Jasmine N. Winters: 26:37

You are hitting on some serious points, Jaye. No, for real, because my partner and I, we um we had this very conversation with a married, another married couple of hours about a month ago. Um, because I like, like I said, we're still going through our healing process within our relationship, and we are leaning on our tribe for that help. More specifically, those in the married space who have experienced similar birthing experiences. And how did you get through the postpartum? And how did you guys heal and grow and maintain an emotional, emotional intimacy with each other? How did you decline in the emotional intimacy area and get it back? Because most families don't. Most black families don't because we don't have the resources. We don't have other married couples we can turn to. And, you know, one of the things that you really hit on was the protection piece.

Jaye Wilson: 27:37

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 27:37

And men understanding truly what their role is as a protector and a leader.

Jaye Wilson: 27:42

Yes.

Jasmine N. Winters: 27:42

It's not you protecting me from the burglar who busts our door down and tries to come in and rob us. That's one form of protection, sure. But there's spiritual, emotional, mental, there's vocal in advocacy where we need our men to show up. And I feel like a lot of times, you know, at least the men in my life, I have three brothers. I was previously married. My father is still very much so in my life and married to my mother, right? Um, I feel like sometimes they don't actually know where they fit in.

Jaye Wilson: 28:17

Yeah.

Jasmine N. Winters: 28:17

They don't know when to jump in. They don't know when to take initiative. Because you know, us women, we can be like, well, you didn't wipe that right.

Jaye Wilson: 28:24

Right. And let me do it.

Jasmine N. Winters: 28:25

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson: 28:25

Let me just show you how to do it.

Jasmine N. Winters: 28:26

And then that'll discourage them from wanting to wipe that table again.

Jaye Wilson: 28:29

Yep.

Jasmine N. Winters: 28:29

And then you're complaining that they haven't wiped the table. And it's like, but you didn't give them a space, safe space. Um, and so it's just really important to communicate where we are emotionally to maintain that intimacy so that the lines of communication are open. And not only are we healing ourselves, but the men have a safe space to know, okay, it's okay to mess up and relearn

Jaye Wilson: 28:56

Right.

Jasmine N. Winters: 28:56

what I thought I knew.

Jaye Wilson: 28:58

Yes. Well, you know, I always say uh black mom magic is a real thing. Because it is. Moms will find a way out of no way. You will walk in this room and see nothing but black walls, and then you'll be like, you know what? If I put this over here and I put that over here, and I maybe put a plant in that corner, this is gonna look like a completely different space. And it will be. And I think to your point, we have to also create that space of encouragement for men.

Jasmine N. Winters: 29:27

Yes.

Jaye Wilson: 29:28

Right? We want them to know I need you here.

Jasmine N. Winters: 29:31

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson: 29:31

This is not just my space. Here's how we share it together. Here's how we learn to grow and evolve into the parents that our children need, but also into the partners that we need to be for each other. I think that also helps us to um build a better example for our kids to see what it looks like to have those healthy dynamics.

Jasmine N. Winters: 29:51

That part.

Jaye Wilson: 30:06

Those parental dynamics are so so very important. And I could have gone down the rabbit hole talking all about that with Jasmine, but we're gonna go ahead and pause the conversation and end that part one of our chat with Jasmine Winters right there. I really enjoyed learning so much about and uplifting Jasmine's morbidity story because as she mentioned, it is important to bring light to these experiences so that others can know that they are not alone. I hope that some of you out there found comfort in hearing Jasmine talk about this and acknowledge that she is still healing, and that's okay. It is okay if you're still healing. She really dropped some gems for us to think about and let's sink in and marinate. And there's so much more to come in part two of our conversation with Jasmine, so make sure you don't miss it. Melinated Mommy Talks the Podcast is your place for authentic and raw conversations about what it means to be a melanated mom. So make sure to subscribe on all of the platforms where you listen to your favorite podcasts. Make sure to like and share. And if you want to continue to see our podcast grow, make sure to become a paid subscriber for exclusive bonus content or become a donating listening supporter. If you're interested in becoming an individual or corporate sponsor of this podcast, go to melinatedmoms. com/ podcast for more information. We can't wait to have you with us in our next episode. So keep listening, stay connected, and stay tapped in.